Jonathan Sacks, Chief Rabbi of the United Hebrew Congregations of the British Commonwealth, visited the European Parliament on Wednesday as part of events celebrating the European Year of Intercultural Dialogue.
Jonathan Sacks, Chief Rabbi of the United Hebrew Congregations of the British Commonwealth, visited the European Parliament on Wednesday as part of events celebrating the European Year of Intercultural Dialogue. After addressing MEPs, he talked to us in an exclusive interview about hope and humour and said “the issue is how do we talk to the moderates so that we can isolate the extremists?”
Europe and America offer slightly different models for multi-racial, multi-religious societies. What can they learn from each other?
Americans have always had to integrate newcomers, so the concept of “covenant” has always been part of the political culture of the United States. But the concept came from the political culture of Europe after the Reformation, which drew strongly on the Hebrew Bible. I suggest that Europe needs to go back to that concept, which has the power to unite different groups across differences of culture.
It says: “we the people come together” - it's a very inclusive form of political identity. If you want to build a society, you must include everyone as a builder. If you contribute to something, you belong to it.
So the US got this idea from Europe. They borrowed it and they kept on using it while Europe forgot all about it. It was born in the 17th century when European nations had to find a way of uniting themselves. Other ways are not good. The romantic reaction against rationalism in the 19th century created nation states predicated on race. If you predicate your nation on race, or religion, you have an exclusive nation. We know where that led: two World Wars and the Holocaust, so we can never go down that road again.
You have yourself met radical Islamists, but can you talk to anyone?
The condition for being able to talk to somebody is that they recognise your right to speak, that you are a partner in dialogue. Someone who negates my very existence, or my identity, or my right to have rights, cannot be a partner in dialogue. So the issue is not how do we talk to the extremists, the issue is how do we talk to the moderates so that we can isolate the extremists.
Europe must empower the moderates, so as to marginalise the extremists. That is a political challenge, because unfortunately the media empower extremists. If you hijack an oil tanker, or explode something, or kill people, you get publicity. So the very structure of the media presents extremists as a role model for disaffected young people. They become heroes. And then young people say: “oh, I want to be like that”. And, my goodness, unless there's a counter-force, then everyone is in trouble.
So don't talk to the extremists, make heroes of the moderates.
Thinking of the Middle East... Shouldn't religions be a tool for understanding, rather than a reason for fighting?
Religion is like the weather. Sometimes it is sunny and you love the weather and other times it's cold and wet and you can't stand the weather. There is no such thing as religion without good elements and bad elements.
In ages of rapid change, destabilisation, uncertainty and fear, people turn to those offering them certainty, and they are always the extremists. For them the world is simple: we are right, they are wrong. Where you have political turbulence and religious extremism, the real heroes are the people who oppose the extremists within their religion. Some have been assassinated for it, some excommunicated. You need courage to stand up against the extremists.
There are amongst the Israelis and Palestinians, religious leaders very much in favour of peace and of recognising the genuine religiosity of the other side.
Looking at history, is there really hope that different religions can coexist in peace?
People confuse optimism and hope, and there is a difference. Optimism is the belief that things are going to get better. Hope is the belief that if we work hard enough we may be able to make things better. Optimism is a passive virtue, hope is active. One needs no courage to be an optimist, just a certain naivety. But it needs a great deal of courage to have hope.
Knowing what our people have lived through over 3000-plus years, no Jew who knows Jewish history can be an optimist; but no Jew can ever give up hope. The national anthem of Israel means “hope”. Our task as religious leaders is to be agents of hope in a world close to despair. It takes tenacity and even courage to keep hoping, but the alternative is not to be contemplated; the politics of despair are always dangerous politics.
Are jokes part of hope?
Absolutely! Humour is the first cousin of hope. I even suggested to President Pöttering that after the European Year for Intercultural Dialogue he might try a European Year of Humour. I was only joking!